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Curio/Flash - Important Information for all WEB3000/Q users/licensees
WildPlay_WPT
#21 Posted : Saturday, December 21, 2013 3:23:44 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: Naken_Draugr Go to Quoted Post
I agree with DJ_Hyporis_EXC. The current beta, from the reviews on the forum, is no where near ready -- where's the scripting, for example (no one I've seen has mentioned it). Also, there is a web plugin that runs as a texture for Unity 3D, though that will not work on a web-compiled version (and compiling for desktop vs web in Unity is rather easy). Such a plugin may facilitate Flash to continue working, but most likely with a less-optimal FPS factor.

Until Curio is ready for primetime testing, I'm not stressing on it at all as I'm sure that once it enters into more than invite-only testing and includes most of the initial features, that testing will expose many things which need to be adjusted (this is not a slight at UV as for any large project this statement is generally true).


You do know the sandbox will be available to everyone right?

As far as scripting, I don't know if you will be able to watch all the tutorials in this link, however I think the title ones are available without paying.

http://www.lynda.com/HTM...-Developers/97148-2.html
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonous to the American public."
- Teddy Roosevelt, in 1918 during the First World War.
Viegoth
#22 Posted : Saturday, December 21, 2013 4:01:01 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: _WildPlay_WPT Go to Quoted Post
As far as scripting, I don't know if you will be able to watch all the tutorials in this link, however I think the title ones are available without paying.

http://www.lynda.com/HTM...-Developers/97148-2.html


The problem with that link is that it covers HTML5 usage outside of Curio. What may be available in other environments/applications won't necessarily be available in Curio.

Besides, I think Naken was referring to scripting in regards to what Utherverse has now (prop scripts) and what Curio is suppose to bring in the future (Javascript capabilities). Neither of these have been talked about much lately, if at all. So it leaves many of us wondering what will become of prop scripts and how far into the future the Javascript feature really is.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

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WildPlay_WPT
#23 Posted : Saturday, December 21, 2013 4:11:54 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: Viegoth Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: _WildPlay_WPT Go to Quoted Post
As far as scripting, I don't know if you will be able to watch all the tutorials in this link, however I think the title ones are available without paying.

http://www.lynda.com/HTM...-Developers/97148-2.html


The problem with that link is that it covers HTML5 usage outside of Curio. What may be available in other environments/applications won't necessarily be available in Curio.

Besides, I think Naken was referring to scripting in regards to what Utherverse has now (prop scripts) and what Curio is suppose to bring in the future (Javascript capabilities). Neither of these have been talked about much lately, if at all. So it leaves many of us wondering what will become of prop scripts and how far into the future the Javascript feature really is.



Oh ppffft.. can't have a video on how to operate a machine when it's still a drawing on the board. Some things we will have to wait and see. However, scripting will actually be based on Javascript, with some slight differences in Unity.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonous to the American public."
- Teddy Roosevelt, in 1918 during the First World War.
Anna7
#24 Posted : Saturday, December 21, 2013 11:58:28 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: Czarcasm Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Anna7 Go to Quoted Post
will users be compensated for all the time and effort of their builds which will be wasted ?

no



I'm sure microsoft gave every user of windows 95 some of its stock when they stopped support for it.

Everything has a lifespan. Get used to it.


jesus you actaully compared UTHERVERSE with Micro soft stay off the drugs you delusional

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lottapussygalore
#25 Posted : Sunday, December 22, 2013 1:03:02 AM(UTC)


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Was asking a friend in another world what he likes the best in Unity ,,,he is some kind of script god I think he even claims to be the best on his profile ,,he has a big head lolol but i seen enuff of his work that WoWed me,,, and he said,,,

In the end, it comes down to what you work best with, how you think, how you work, and what you are actually doing.

I love C#, and really don't like JS for several reasons, but that's just because of how I work and what I am doing.

I do recommend, however, that people learning programming learn C# first, then move to JS if they prefer it. The reason for that, is C# forces you to design your code very well from the start and understand what's going on behind the scenes, while JS is more forgiving in that area.

Once you get a good grasp on how things work, if you still prefer JS (or Boo) then by all means go for it.

Just my suggestion, and like a certain programming language, it won't apply to everyone either.

Try em all, see what you like best.
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MrLarsMaxum
#26 Posted : Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:47:35 AM(UTC)


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Naken_Draugr
#27 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 6:08:12 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: _WildPlay_WPT Go to Quoted Post
You do know the sandbox will be available to everyone right?

Smile I might not have used the word sandbox, but that was what was inferred with the lengthier:
Originally Posted by: Naken_Draugr Go to Quoted Post
Until Curio is ready for primetime testing, I'm not stressing on it at all as I'm sure that once it enters into more than invite-only testing

Naken_Draugr
#28 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 6:15:06 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: lottapussygalore Go to Quoted Post
I do recommend, however, that people learning programming learn C# first, then move to JS if they prefer it. The reason for that, is C# forces you to design your code very well from the start and understand what's going on behind the scenes, while JS is more forgiving in that area.


tbh: No language forces what's generally considered best programming practices and you can get away with a lot using the WYSIWYG aspect of C# GUI development environments. Learning how to program well takes time and dedication regardless of the language in which you work. When you're superb at coding and see other's work, you'll be amazed at just how much must be taught for someone to truly understand the nuances going on behind the scenes... I'm sure your friend will agree.

That said, the stricter typing and more object-oriented nature of C# provides a framework from which it is FAR easier to garner a better understanding than that provided via JS and understanding the nuances of JS (such as how closures work) can be a brain fuck.

I've built code in Unity in JS and C#, but prefer C# for various reasons, most of which are readability.

If one uses plugins available from the store or from Unity themselves, however, you'll find that you'll be working in both languages... little is provided in both languages.
Viegoth
#29 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 4:04:41 PM(UTC)

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Just a little something extra to consider regarding the absence of Flash in Curio...

Many of the videos, movies, etc that people bring into the 3D world from places like UtherTube, RedTube, YouTube and many others all use a Flash video player to stream content. Some of them do offer HTML5 players for some of their videos, but not all.

What will it mean for Utherverse in Curio if Flash will no longer be available? What happens to all of the video content that people use now? What happens to places like Cam Alley and Century Theater? Will they be cut from the new world order?

While HTML5 does support video playback, many of the sites that people use currently in Utherverse do not, or at least not fully, implement HTML5 players.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

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WildPlay_WPT
#30 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 4:35:29 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: Viegoth Go to Quoted Post
Just a little something extra to consider regarding the absence of Flash in Curio...

Many of the videos, movies, etc that people bring into the 3D world from places like UtherTube, RedTube, YouTube and many others all use a Flash video player to stream content. Some of them do offer HTML5 players for some of their videos, but not all.

What will it mean for Utherverse in Curio if Flash will no longer be available? What happens to all of the video content that people use now? What happens to places like Cam Alley and Century Theater? Will they be cut from the new world order?

While HTML5 does support video playback, many of the sites that people use currently in Utherverse do not, or at least not fully, implement HTML5 players.



Here is a place to start..
http://web.appstorm.net/...eat-html5-video-players/

and another:

http://html5video.org/wi..._Video_Player_Comparison

Many of those place offer api's so you can have the api play in an HTML5 player.. Using Javascript.

As more and more video sites want to go mobile compatible, more and more will offer the html5
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonous to the American public."
- Teddy Roosevelt, in 1918 during the First World War.
Viegoth
#31 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 5:02:37 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: _WildPlay_WPT Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Viegoth Go to Quoted Post
Just a little something extra to consider regarding the absence of Flash in Curio...

Many of the videos, movies, etc that people bring into the 3D world from places like UtherTube, RedTube, YouTube and many others all use a Flash video player to stream content. Some of them do offer HTML5 players for some of their videos, but not all.

What will it mean for Utherverse in Curio if Flash will no longer be available? What happens to all of the video content that people use now? What happens to places like Cam Alley and Century Theater? Will they be cut from the new world order?

While HTML5 does support video playback, many of the sites that people use currently in Utherverse do not, or at least not fully, implement HTML5 players.



Here is a place to start..
http://web.appstorm.net/...eat-html5-video-players/

and another:

http://html5video.org/wi..._Video_Player_Comparison

Many of those place offer api's so you can have the api play in an HTML5 player.. Using Javascript.

As more and more video sites want to go mobile compatible, more and more will offer the html5


So do either of these take Flash video and replay them using HTML5? Because if that's not what they do, then they aren't so useful in regards to the above post.

People use links from RedTube, YouTube and other sites to play video in Utherverse. Many of those sites strictly use Flash and don't have HTML5 players. Without some way to automatically convert those Flash players into HTML5 players, many are going to be left out.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

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WildPlay_WPT
#32 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 5:07:23 PM(UTC)


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Many of them have flash back up, soo uhhmm I guess so. There are flash to html5 converters out there. I have not looked into it a great deal, as I said, more and more will be going mobile compatible or fall back into obscurity in the search engines, that means they will be going html5 to survive. So I think the point of sites offering html5 videos is kinda mute anyway..
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president and to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonous to the American public."
- Teddy Roosevelt, in 1918 during the First World War.
Mr_Rasa_MM
#33 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 5:32:52 PM(UTC)


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I've been playing around in Unity (Unrelated to Curio) and the functional abilities of javascript are rather limited compared to C#. So I'm rather worried now about the capabilities of scripting within Curio that will eventually come out (I'm not holding my breath.) However on flash: Because curio is going to be focusing on multi-platform compatability several platforms do not use flash (iOS for instance has no flash capability.) However like many have said flash has a better substitute HTML5 it all falls on UV to figure out how they are going to implement the scripting systems as well as the customization systems for possible external services, Such as Web3k and Naken.

Personally, I've developed a game in unity just in javascript (senior projects!) and started a new one personally. After giving the finger to javascript I rewrote the code from it to C# (which is far more flexible in my opinion.) So for beginning people I'd say work with javascript because Curio's scripting engine is going to follow it and the transition to C# will just give more features.

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WildPlay_WPT on 12/23/2013(UTC), Manequin on 12/23/2013(UTC)
Manequin
#34 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 7:22:01 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: Viegoth Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: _WildPlay_WPT Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Viegoth Go to Quoted Post
Just a little something extra to consider regarding the absence of Flash in Curio...

Many of the videos, movies, etc that people bring into the 3D world from places like UtherTube, RedTube, YouTube and many others all use a Flash video player to stream content. Some of them do offer HTML5 players for some of their videos, but not all.

What will it mean for Utherverse in Curio if Flash will no longer be available? What happens to all of the video content that people use now? What happens to places like Cam Alley and Century Theater? Will they be cut from the new world order?

While HTML5 does support video playback, many of the sites that people use currently in Utherverse do not, or at least not fully, implement HTML5 players.



Here is a place to start..
http://web.appstorm.net/...eat-html5-video-players/

and another:

http://html5video.org/wi..._Video_Player_Comparison

Many of those place offer api's so you can have the api play in an HTML5 player.. Using Javascript.

As more and more video sites want to go mobile compatible, more and more will offer the html5


So do either of these take Flash video and replay them using HTML5? Because if that's not what they do, then they aren't so useful in regards to the above post.

People use links from RedTube, YouTube and other sites to play video in Utherverse. Many of those sites strictly use Flash and don't have HTML5 players. Without some way to automatically convert those Flash players into HTML5 players, many are going to be left out.




Viegoth your our GOD on this forum for help for so many things, if you don't know how to convert our Flash to HTML5 I think we are doomed until you figure a way how too. Please keep trying Kiss

Happy Christmas Smile
PixelJim
#35 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 10:02:32 PM(UTC)


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Dunno if this will be of any help but you are free to have at it.

I know zilch when it comes to writing code.

http://forums.utherverse...io-Info.aspx#post1241840
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Ceka_Cianci
#36 Posted : Monday, December 23, 2013 10:55:10 PM(UTC)


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wouldn't the client work like a browser would on the internet..
that was the impression i was getting from brian..

if we look at the client as the browser and the world as the net..

we download the client not the net..


some sites are set up to use flash and some are not..
but the browser would be able to see all those sites..

so basically what i am understanding is you have old uthervers with all it's stuff and all those little sites in those sections of it that are like older websites..
a zabay is a virtual world or considered a site on the 3d internet..
it has it's own url..

all those older utherverse sites should be able to be seen with the new client..

where the client we have now would not be able to see the new curio sites..

the new curio sites may not be set up for flash, but that doesn't mean the new client won't be able to see flash from the older sites..

from a lot of what i've heard it is for the most part back ported to support the old world..

if that is the case it should be able to see anything in it..


from what i am gathering,with curio it will be more uploading content to a server than it will be having to link things to other sites for them to work..

sort of like it is done in second life..

you upload your textures and mesh and animations to an asset server rather than say textures sitting on photo bucket..

i could be way off,but a lot of what i have heard so far sounds pretty similar to other content creation worlds i'm part of that have content uploaded rather than linked through scripts..although they allow scripts to still do that in the others..

flash and textures in the current utherverse are more or less just linked from the url they are sitting on through the client to our system ..
if our flash player is not up to par we can't see flash..
if the server our textures are sitting on crashes and kills off the link..it kills off our being able to see the textures in world..
because we are actually linked through the client to those outside sites..

curio sounds to me like it will be eliminating a lot of the outside linking and handling more of the asset load itself..

again this is just me picking up pieces along the way like everyone else..but just seeing similarities in a many things..things that i think will be very nice for creators and users in the new world..
if i am close in my assumptions anyways hehehe

i could be 10 miles off and just spinning tires here as well lol
Mr_Rasa_MM
#37 Posted : Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:15:58 AM(UTC)


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For all intents and purposes UV is still up in the air for the most part in what its going to do. Everything until release of Curio is speculation.

My guess is relying on the cynical side of me where there will be a "Compatability mode" setup which some things will be inherently broken (flash I'm looking at you as the defacto problem.)

The optimist in me says that if they ARE relying on chrome (which thank friggin goodness if they are because its open source) then they could at least make it compatible on SOME platforms. Others wont be so lucky (iOS for instance.)

If UV takes a central asset server approach towards everything, that would be a BIG step forward from their SOP and would deserve a basket full of hookers for implementing it successfully.

Wait and see is what I'm doin.
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Ceka_Cianci on 12/24/2013(UTC)
Viegoth
#38 Posted : Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:56:18 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Ceka_Cianci Go to Quoted Post
wouldn't the client work like a browser would on the internet..
that was the impression i was getting from brian..

if we look at the client as the browser and the world as the net..

we download the client not the net..


some sites are set up to use flash and some are not..
but the browser would be able to see all those sites..

so basically what i am understanding is you have old uthervers with all it's stuff and all those little sites in those sections of it that are like older websites..
a zabay is a virtual world or considered a site on the 3d internet..
it has it's own url..

all those older utherverse sites should be able to be seen with the new client..

where the client we have now would not be able to see the new curio sites..

the new curio sites may not be set up for flash, but that doesn't mean the new client won't be able to see flash from the older sites..

from a lot of what i've heard it is for the most part back ported to support the old world..

if that is the case it should be able to see anything in it..


from what i am gathering,with curio it will be more uploading content to a server than it will be having to link things to other sites for them to work..

sort of like it is done in second life..

you upload your textures and mesh and animations to an asset server rather than say textures sitting on photo bucket..

i could be way off,but a lot of what i have heard so far sounds pretty similar to other content creation worlds i'm part of that have content uploaded rather than linked through scripts..although they allow scripts to still do that in the others..

flash and textures in the current utherverse are more or less just linked from the url they are sitting on through the client to our system ..
if our flash player is not up to par we can't see flash..
if the server our textures are sitting on crashes and kills off the link..it kills off our being able to see the textures in world..
because we are actually linked through the client to those outside sites..

curio sounds to me like it will be eliminating a lot of the outside linking and handling more of the asset load itself..

again this is just me picking up pieces along the way like everyone else..but just seeing similarities in a many things..things that i think will be very nice for creators and users in the new world..
if i am close in my assumptions anyways hehehe

i could be 10 miles off and just spinning tires here as well lol


Curio is your browser. That much is right. But here's the snag. If your browser isn't capable of supporting the necessary plugins (Flash, WMP, etc) then if you load a URL for that type of content, you get nothing. And from what the devs are saying, this new browser (Curio) won't support the Flash plugin. Therefore if you try to view Flash with it, you won't see anything.


"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

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Ceka_Cianci on 12/24/2013(UTC)
Viegoth
#39 Posted : Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:57:24 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Mr_Rasa_MM Go to Quoted Post
The optimist in me says that if they ARE relying on chrome (which thank friggin goodness if they are because its open source) then they could at least make it compatible on SOME platforms. Others wont be so lucky (iOS for instance.)


They aren't actually relying on Chrome. They are relying on Awesomium, which is a port of Chromium. Chrome is also a port of Chromium which Google took and made into something decent. Awesomium was developed by someone else (not nearly to the extent of what Google did with Chrome) as a browser module to be used in game development. Unfortunately, it is severely lacking in much of the compatibility that we find in Chrome.

It's kinda like saying they are relying on Ubuntu(Linux), when in reality they are relying on WebOS (a derivative of Linux). What it really comes down to is how far along Awesomium is when Curio is released, and whether or not Curio is using the latest version of it. Because at present, Awesomium doesn't support a lot of the cool things we will be depending on HTML5 for.

To put things into perspective... the current Utherverse client uses Internet Explorer (IE) to display web content in-world. But it's programmattically tied to the IE7 core. Which means that even if you have IE9, 10 or 11 installed on your computer, props in Utherverse are still using IE7. So it's not capable of displaying a lot of the cool stuff that IE11 can.
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Candy4love_C2 on 12/24/2013(UTC)
Viegoth
#40 Posted : Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:16:07 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: Manequin Go to Quoted Post
Viegoth your our GOD on this forum for help for so many things, if you don't know how to convert our Flash to HTML5 I think we are doomed until you figure a way how too. Please keep trying Kiss


Converting Flash to HTML5 is a non-issue. Hell, Adobe has a tool for that as does Google. But even with those tools, the conversion is not 100%. Most Flash apps will convert without a problem, so a lot of the gadgets and gizmos people like myself and Naken and Web3000 make will live through the process.

The concern, then, falls to things like video and music apps. You can't just grab a video URL from YouTube and magically convert it from Flash to HTML5.

Plus, a great deal of Flash video uses a specific format known as H.264. For those of you who don't know what that means, don't worry about the technical jargon. Just think of it as a language for video. Flash video speaks one set of languages, but HTML5 speaks another. If HTML5 doesn't understand the language the Flash video is speaking, you get nothing. But more importantly, if Curio doesn't speak the right language, then you really get nothing.

The same thing goes for MP3 music streams. A lot of DJs use ShoutCast music streams, which are almost exclusively MP3 streams. At last count, the technology that Curio is relying on isn't capable of supporting MP3 audio.

What this boils down to is this. Although much of the cool stuff we like in Flash will convert over to HTML5 without a huge problem, some of it won't... like many of the video and music apps. Which means some of us will have to find new sources of videos and music while we wait for the technologies to catch up.

P.S. And if you're waiting on the likes of me to save you... you really are doomed. Tongue
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