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Texture Size, Pixel Counts, Video Memory, and File Formats
kelstan
#21 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:57:03 AM(UTC)


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nice to see you around Jarvis Smile
Alexandre_N
#22 Posted : Sunday, October 10, 2010 2:24:40 PM(UTC)

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Wow, I have been simply cutting and pasting images all along.
Please re-affirm the process:
I find an image I want to use, say as a wall picture.
For example, the original image is 500 x 281 pixels. I use an image editing program to size it to 256 x 256. Now the image is distorted, but I save it that way anyway, and when I use it, I use `Scaling' in prop edit to adjust the proportions for the proper appearance.
Do I have this correct?
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xxxCHRISTYxxx on 12/12/2018(UTC)
TT_kitten_SPS
#23 Posted : Sunday, October 10, 2010 2:46:39 PM(UTC)


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Spot on, Alexandre. You want your pixel dimensions to always be combination of 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, and/or 1024. (Power of 2 rule, I read somewhere). If you're doing a flat color for example on a wall, you could do a 32x32 square instead of doing a honking 512x 512, since detail isn't an issue. For pictures to go on walls, I usually do combinations of 128x256 or vice versa, unless I need to blow it up big and need every bit of detail. Basically for textures, you want the smallest size you can get and still keep your detail, and always in combinations of those numbers.

Edited to add: if you want to see the difference properly sized textures make in-world, go into your settings panel and change your resolution to medium. Then log out, log back in, and wander around. It's horrifying. I was absolutely appalled when I saw some of my own work in medium the first time I did that. Cry


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xxxCHRISTYxxx on 12/12/2018(UTC)
Cute_Dark_Kitten
#24 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 1:54:53 PM(UTC)


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Since I read this I thaught the texture size of the Avatars is resized Automatically by the settings.

I would name it "a bug" if texture sizes were not resized.

Reason? Its already mentioned above. Designers prefer use higher resolutions for more details.

So if everyone is a resolution messy, most Avatar would have ~24MB, which would blow the most graficcards.

So what is the actual behaviour?
a) The Original Texture Resolution from is used in the game
b) The Textures were Downsized when used (1024->512->256->128->64). And the Client can choose what is used.

If a): WHY, this is stupid
If b): I am happy Wink But where is this setting?

DreamMakersInc
#25 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 6:58:53 PM(UTC)

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Resolution is not file size ie; a 2048x2048 texture is not automatically 2Mb in size. I think you have a misconception here.
Depending on the active pixel count and compression/optimizations applied, a 512x512 texture can be 1.25Mb in size, or 300Kb.
It all depends on the content and how it is produced by the designer.
I design in 2048 resolution and often post outfits with shoes at 128, skirts at 256, tops at 512 and faces/hair at 1024 resolutions. Many of my 1024 res textures are in the 140-250Kb range in size after proper post production and optimizations.
When a client sends request for texture, it is compressed by a power of 2, sent to the client computer and placed in it's Utherverse cache. It is not uncommon to see a 2x reduction in file size due to this.
Just wanted to clear this up.
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Cute_Dark_Kitten
#26 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:13:31 PM(UTC)


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@Dream_Makers

As Described in the Thread start, compression doesnt Matter.

For Example:
"Image Size Texture Memory Texture Memory
at 32-bit at 24-bit

1024x1024 4 MB 3 MB"
I took 24 MB per Avatar as a well guessed Value.
LittleJenn
#27 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 4:26:54 AM(UTC)


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Dream_Makers;975270 wrote:
Resolution is not file size ie; a 2048x2048 texture is not automatically 2Mb in size. I think you have a misconception here.
Depending on the active pixel count and compression/optimizations applied, a 512x512 texture can be 1.25Mb in size, or 300Kb.
It all depends on the content and how it is produced by the designer.
I design in 2048 resolution and often post outfits with shoes at 128, skirts at 256, tops at 512 and faces/hair at 1024 resolutions. Many of my 1024 res textures are in the 140-250Kb range in size after proper post production and optimizations.
When a client sends request for texture, it is compressed by a power of 2, sent to the client computer and placed in it's Utherverse cache. It is not uncommon to see a 2x reduction in file size due to this.
Just wanted to clear this up.


The misconception is yours. Images are NOT compressed when displayed. When stored in video memory images are stored somewhat similarly to BMP format. IOW, the image takes up the same space as a similarly sized, uncompressed BMP. In real terms this means that for every pixel in the image, 3 or 4 bytes of video memory are consumed depending upon whether or not the image has an alpha channel (jpg = 3, png = 4 bytes). Your 2048^2 images will consume either 12MB or 16MB of video memory NO MATTER WHAT SIZE THE FILE IS. The file sizes you mention only affect how quickly they transfer over the network and have absolutely no affect on lag caused by graphics memory being shuffled around.

Now consider this. Assuming the skin of an avatar is jpg format and the avatar is wearing shoes, hair, upper and lower outer garments and upper and lower under garments of type png. If all those images are 2048x2048 that ONE avatar is consuming 132MB of video memory! Even a decent video card with 1GB of memory is going to have problems when you get just a handful of avatars in one property even if all the other textures in that location are minimal.

1024x1024 resolution of those same skin/clothing textures would use only 33MB of video memory. 512^2 images would use 8.25MB. There is no good reason to use textures over 1024x1024 and in the vast majority of cases, no reason to use higher than 512x512.

Using 2048x2048 for any reason just shows a total lack of regard for the gaming experience of others. The choice not only affects the person who purchased and is wearing those textures, but also everyone who is unfortunate enough to be in the same location as them.

That all said, there are file formats that can be used to lesson this impact but UV does not make use of them. Perhaps in the next client...
Cute_Dark_Kitten
#28 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 5:20:39 AM(UTC)


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LittleJenn;975380 wrote:

1024x1024 resolution of those same skin/clothing textures would use only 33MB of video memory. 512^2 images would use 8.25MB. There is no good reason to use textures over 1024x1024 and in the vast majority of cases, no reason to use higher than 512x512.


The only is funny Wink
512x512 uses around 800kb each texture.


In addition to the above calculation
30 Avatars (each 33 MB) => 1GB Video memory for Avatars
And then there is a area surrounding, which sonsumes memory too.
Happy Laggy.

Its against, what I read, but does the "Texture Quality", which can be choosen in Client affect the texture size (for example: Full= Highres Textures, Mediaum=512 Textures and low means 256 textures)?

I am not familiar how this theoretically works; and theory doesnt matter. It would be nice if someone of the coders can loose a word about the following:
1) are the submitted textures used 1:1 for ingame
2) is there a client setting to override this?
3) (if 1) Please make an update immediately to allow the clinet to choose which texture size is used. The Downsampling can be done on server or on client size, doesnt matter, but it would be nice to decide, if I want to see 128,256,512,1024 or 2048 textures (Im pretty sure there will not be difference to see. I do not know anyone who has a that high screen resolution Wink

I bet such an option would be a big improvement for gamefun (because lag isnt funny at all)
Rand
#29 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 10:05:16 AM(UTC)

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There are settings one can change in their client. High, Medium and Low. Plus a few others.

Of course if someone uses those to come off of High some stuff is going to start breaking because it was never sized in any of the correct dimensions to start with. Both in Design and Deco.
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Cretox on 3/23/2012(UTC)
Cute_Dark_Kitten
#30 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 12:51:19 PM(UTC)


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Rand;975443 wrote:
There are settings one can change in their client. High, Medium and Low. Plus a few others.

Of course if someone uses those to come off of High some stuff is going to start breaking because it was never sized in any of the correct dimensions to start with. Both in Design and Deco.


Is this only theory or fact?

Cant find this documented anywhere
Mr_Rasa_MM
#31 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 2:36:36 PM(UTC)


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Cute_Dark_Kitten;975480 wrote:
Rand;975443 wrote:
There are settings one can change in their client. High, Medium and Low. Plus a few others.

Of course if someone uses those to come off of High some stuff is going to start breaking because it was never sized in any of the correct dimensions to start with. Both in Design and Deco.


Is this only theory or fact?

Cant find this documented anywhere


Actually, I've been noticing that the "Shoulder" issue where a improperly sized outfit would be just on the sholdier is actually fixed. It takes a detail hit and we can tell that the image has a poorer overall quality but yea its fixed.

Same with decorating, seems people complained about it enough and development fixed it. Much to many's irritation and many's cheering, just can't please everyone.
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#32 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:42:02 PM(UTC)


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If you don't believe file size can caused lag, all you have to do is upload into UVC a 256x256 takes less than a second a 2048x2048 can take twenty to thirty seconds to upload. That is just one file and it can be the same texture just in a different size. Now imagine the download of each of those textures to render an outfit.


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