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Fall through platform floor ?
OnWatch
#1 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 2:11:34 PM(UTC)

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Hi

I want to create an elevated platform, for example a balcony, and put a balcony rail on it to prevent ava's from falling off.

I can then use a Plane_01 prop as floor, and a Balcony Rail prop as railing, both props having the Collidable flag on State tab of prop editor checked.

Usually this works quite well, but if your avatar keeps insistently pushing against the balcony rail, sometimes you sink through the floor (particularly if you keep turning left and right while pushing against the rail).
Same thing happens with upper floors (Plane_01 + Wall props).

To me this looks like that colliding into two props at the same time sometimes causes one of them to fail blocking you ava's movement.

Does anybody have the same experience? Any idea how to prevent this?

Tnx
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xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC)
_Shanie_KSJ
#2 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 3:49:49 PM(UTC)

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Hi i am not to sure but i think this is a bug, hasn't happened to me but i think there was a earlier post about if you stand up against a colidable and turned then you would fall through
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xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC)
__Autumn__
#3 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 5:08:33 PM(UTC)


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There is a collide glitch, and you do not have to do anything but bump a collide while standing on a collide to fall through. They know about it, but do not seem inclined to fix it.


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EleanorSCT on 8/5/2013(UTC), xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC), SifuPeter on 9/29/2013(UTC)
OnWatch
#4 Posted : Friday, August 02, 2013 6:49:45 PM(UTC)

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Thanks. I know enough Wink
Lady_Gininha_LNS
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 03, 2013 2:50:53 PM(UTC)

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to avoid this failure I do not put a bump in the rail, and lay in a collision sign_01 taking care that the collision is below sign_01 not bump plane_01.

Dancing
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xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC)
SifuPeter
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 04, 2013 1:15:58 AM(UTC)

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You can also simply put your frame rate (Settings: FPS) to max 60 or 30 instead of unlimited.

If you like to know why... each Monday i do a free training on Collidables at 1500 EST

Enjoy

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OnWatch on 8/6/2013(UTC), Searching777 on 8/8/2013(UTC), xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC)
__Autumn__
#7 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2013 7:56:47 AM(UTC)


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Peter, you are awesome, and I have had my settings done like that for some time.
Just the build I am working on now, for some reason, I am falling through regardless.
Normally Wraith can set stairs in a few seconds. In this build,he had to work all evening to get the stairs to work on one level. We would walk through them like the plane was not there, then fall through.
They are working now, but I have gotten spooked by stairs in this build so much that I tend to try to build without them. Tired of falling into outer uther. lol
I cannot make my walls collide either, if I do and bump them I drop straight through again. Since this place will be open to the public when finished, I can't put things in there that will drop people through the ground. It is a pain to do this build correctly without collidable walls and stairs.
This is the first property I have had issues like this so badly. But I see others are having issues also, so there has to be something UV changed causing this.


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SifuPeter on 8/5/2013(UTC)
OnWatch
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2013 10:58:22 AM(UTC)

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Thanks;

I am not sure I've grasped Lady_Gininha_LNS's solution in detail though. Are you suggesting a sign_01 behaves differently?

@Peter: Too bad I'll have to wait for my next vacation before I can attend on Monday's, and that is still some time awayWink
However, I fully agree with Autumn that correct functioning of any place should not depend on the settings of visitor's clients. I'm not afraid that I will fall through my own platforms, but rather care that others won't, regardless what they put into their max FPS setting.

Still, one keeps learning about the subtleties of RLC Smile
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xxx_Doug_ooo on 8/18/2013(UTC)
xxx_Doug_ooo
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2013 5:22:17 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: SifuPeter Go to Quoted Post
You can also simply put your frame rate (Settings: FPS) to max 60 or 30 instead of unlimited.

If you like to know why... each Monday i do a free training on Collidables at 1500 EST

Enjoy

I would like to more about these classes...
OnWatch
#10 Posted : Sunday, September 29, 2013 8:56:50 AM(UTC)

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Ok.. I think I got Lady_Gininha_LNS hint.. thank you for that Smile

Still, the same problem is there horizontally.

How would you join two walls with collision state set into making a corner which you cannot sneak through?

If you let the collision zones of the two walls not touch, there is a hole.
If you line them up so that the red lines exactly align, you can break through just by pushing your ava into the corner for a short while.. same thing if the collision zones overlap.

Collision state is just unreliable when multiple props are involved.

Just wondering if the native walls of a basic zaby are done in a different way because they do keep you in...
EleanorSCT
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:26:28 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: OnWatch Go to Quoted Post
Ok.. I think I got Lady_Gininha_LNS hint.. thank you for that Smile

Still, the same problem is there horizontally.

How would you join two walls with collision state set into making a corner which you cannot sneak through?

If you let the collision zones of the two walls not touch, there is a hole.
If you line them up so that the red lines exactly align, you can break through just by pushing your ava into the corner for a short while.. same thing if the collision zones overlap.

Collision state is just unreliable when multiple props are involved.

Just wondering if the native walls of a basic zaby are done in a different way because they do keep you in...


They are programmed in to be collidable as part of a solid prop. The collide function on separate props is, as you say, separate and unreliable.
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SifuPeter
#12 Posted : Sunday, September 29, 2013 12:38:16 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: OnWatch Go to Quoted Post

How would you join two walls with collision state set into making a corner which you cannot sneak through?


There is a short and long explanation. For the long one best attend to a free class on collidables mondays 15EST ... or go there yourself. Feel free to experiment, landmark, i reset the space weekly. Click on the book for a free PDF on collidables.

The short answer is like this.

You might know that the original prop is not involved in the collision. It is a separate hidden prop that gets its origin, scale and rotation from the prop you made collidable. This hidden prop has 6 sides. Top is well known since we walk often on top of floors. It stops gravity from acting on the avatar. The bottom is lesser known however might be experienced in slides original invented by Rebel_RNS and a fair amount of zabies with similar thrill rides. The bottom behaves like a top however has a kick. This kick is required... since if it would act like a top then people jumping by mistake in a ceiling would hang on the ceiling. Which is great if you want your genitals checked and fondled, but hurts the neck. Try this: Invert a collider and this kick is upward. Jump on it and watch your F2 to convince yourself.

The side behaves like a mix between bottom and top. In that we can walk on it (stairs are made that way) however it also has a down force component. Try this: put a wall under say 30degrees angle and try to run up the side. You will see that you gradual slow down and start to slide back exactly like it does on the bottom however much slower. If the side you walk on is not too long you may be fast enough to get to the edge and continue on the top of the collidable.

So... what does the above tests tell us?

That sides have a kick if we get too close. This kick is downward unless you turned the prop upside down. I doubt you did that with the walls. So rubbing against the wall does more than just relieve the itch at your sunburned back... it also smacks you straight through the floor which is bad for the population density of the zaby.

To avoid this there are several possibilities. One can be to change the FPS from unlimited to say 30 or 60 (the loooong answer will tell you why) however that does not help visitors. The easiest way is NOT to make walls collidable. (Besides you best avoid walls all together in favor of signs as is well documented and argued in other posts) Best is to use props that by nature are horizontal, like flat plane, court floor, flr_dance, surface_water. Then to tilt them vertical towards the people you want to contain and make them hidden. If then then rub against it they really touch the top. Which works just fine and dandy as intended.

Enjoy
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OnWatch on 9/30/2013(UTC), _Shanie_KSJ on 9/30/2013(UTC), __Autumn__ on 4/6/2014(UTC)
__Autumn__
#13 Posted : Sunday, September 29, 2013 1:22:52 PM(UTC)


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I do not know what the difference is, but on another same type property connected to this build I used the fish tank glass as my collidable wall and there is no falling through. I hit the wall and slam to a stop. YAY!!
But, I tried that on the property I spoke of earlier in this thread and still fall through. So, I was wondering if there is a glitch with some properties and not others, even same type properties.
Or is it due to the height of the work on the property. It seems that the higher I go outside a property the more chance of the collide causing me to drop through.
On the first level of the property I spoke of in my last post, the ground level is at 36571 on the y, the collides work fine, on another level at 136561 on the y the collides work fine also when I went to 303891 on the y the wall collides will not work. I fall through every time with any prop I use. This last level is also the one the stairs were a pain to put in.
Then again, I have another of the exact same type property that I had no issues with.
Level 1: 36110
Level 2: 136179
Level 3: 236402
Level 4: 336119
Level 5: 436503
Level 6: (moved to the side so on the x 197791) (same on the y as level 5)
Level 7: 520571
Collides work on all these levels


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3 users thanked __Autumn__ for this useful post.
EleanorSCT on 9/29/2013(UTC), _Shanie_KSJ on 9/30/2013(UTC), SifuPeter on 10/2/2013(UTC)
EleanorSCT
#14 Posted : Sunday, September 29, 2013 4:37:53 PM(UTC)

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I use fishtank glass as well, I slap it right in the middle, so that it floats inside the wall or whatever I used to build with. It doesn't touch the floor as I figure no-one is going to try and limbo under it....though they might.. who knows? I haven't had any fall through with that so far.(hope I didn't just jinx it!) As a side note I find it scales very well, not just on width but on thickness, leaving my avatar's toes just off the wall, which is ideal.
4 users thanked EleanorSCT for this useful post.
__Autumn__ on 9/29/2013(UTC), OnWatch on 9/30/2013(UTC), _Shanie_KSJ on 9/30/2013(UTC), SifuPeter on 10/2/2013(UTC)
OnWatch
#15 Posted : Monday, September 30, 2013 4:19:56 PM(UTC)

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Thank you SifuPeter for your post, this is exactly the explanation I was looking for!

Using rotated courtfloors I could build walls that so far have proven unbreakable, also in corners. No falling through the floor either.
My ava now normally stops when hitting a wall instead of going into X-spread, which is a sure sign of trouble.

The fact that the collision zone could be directed was lost on me until now.

I will try the fishtank as well, Evelyn, ty... I like to experiment Smile

xxx
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_Shanie_KSJ
#16 Posted : Monday, September 30, 2013 4:37:43 PM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: __Autumn__ Go to Quoted Post
I do not know what the difference is, but on another same type property connected to this build I used the fish tank glass as my collidable wall and there is no falling through. I hit the wall and slam to a stop. YAY!!
But, I tried that on the property I spoke of earlier in this thread and still fall through. So, I was wondering if there is a glitch with some properties and not others, even same type properties.
Or is it due to the height of the work on the property. It seems that the higher I go outside a property the more chance of the collide causing me to drop through.
On the first level of the property I spoke of in my last post, the ground level is at 36571 on the y, the collides work fine, on another level at 136561 on the y the collides work fine also when I went to 303891 on the y the wall collides will not work. I fall through every time with any prop I use. This last level is also the one the stairs were a pain to put in.
Then again, I have another of the exact same type property that I had no issues with.
Level 1: 36110
Level 2: 136179
Level 3: 236402
Level 4: 336119
Level 5: 436503
Level 6: (moved to the side so on the x 197791) (same on the y as level 5)
Level 7: 520571
Collides work on all these levels


Had this problem on a build we started off at 50000 Y and the colidables would not work at all we had to move the whole house down to 30000 they worked fine.
I think certain templates have gliches.
I have been using the Trans Railing but i think i might try fish tank glass
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OnWatch
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 8:39:16 AM(UTC)

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Having same problem at greater heights (in my case 85000).

While using court floor 'walls' as described by SifuPeter works just fine on lower levels I run again into the fall-through-bottom problem higher up.
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__Autumn__ on 4/7/2014(UTC)
RandyKnight
#18 Posted : Sunday, April 06, 2014 11:07:21 AM(UTC)


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I use a fish tank with success also but in small areas I have found
the "black metal railing" a good colide using the width at 1 and then scaling H and L
as needed.....
SifuPeter
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 08, 2014 9:28:47 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: OnWatch Go to Quoted Post
Having same problem at greater heights (in my case 85000).

While using court floor 'walls' as described by SifuPeter works just fine on lower levels I run again into the fall-through-bottom problem higher up.



In the zaby Understanding stairs the method explicit describes the 64k bug. Maybe i should write it bigger, it would have saved you a fair bit of time i guess.
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__Autumn__ on 4/13/2014(UTC)
OnWatch
#20 Posted : Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:41:22 AM(UTC)

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Originally Posted by: SifuPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OnWatch Go to Quoted Post
Having same problem at greater heights (in my case 85000).

While using court floor 'walls' as described by SifuPeter works just fine on lower levels I run again into the fall-through-bottom problem higher up.



In the zaby Understanding stairs the method explicit describes the 64k bug. Maybe i should write it bigger, it would have saved you a fair bit of time i guess.


No that's ok. I was aware of a problem above 64K, as I recall having read about it in your zaby (though I cannot find the remark there anymore today). Just wasn't sure how severe it would be, and I wanted the height.

Experimenting a bit I found that some collides are impacted more severely than others but i cannot answer what makes the difference.
So I could build walls using rotated court floor around a platform at 85000 that do not behave much worse than many I've seen in places at lower levels. Other props drop you through the floor at first contact, f.i. a collidable bed on the platform seems to do that.
Same thing when I tried an internal wall (again, rotated court floor). Here it depends on whether you run into 'top' or 'bottom' side which determines which collission fails, that 'wall' or the floor. This seems consistent with your description of how these collidables work.

I normally set max fps to unlimited. Tuning that down improves the behavior but even when as low as 15 it is possible to breach the collision - and such a low fps has other disadvantages.

As a workaround I avoid collidables that high up as much as possible (which I can afford in this current project of mine) and have put a trigger box under the platform floor which transports the ava back up to the platform in case it falls through.
For me this works well enough now, but if I wouldn't need the height I definitely would stay below 64K.
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